@Mehlachi I was thinking about getting an RV converted Sphincter van. Two problems, they cost a shit-ton of money, and also, generally don’t have a toilet. Thereby somehow failing the whole idea of this thread.
@Mehlachi@phendrick It’s about half as fugly as the ass-end of a lot of late model Hondas or the nose of that GMC Terrain thing. But nothing made after 1965 out-fuglies the Asstek.
Any of the hundreds of thousands of clapped out druggy cars that came to my state with people living in them because the IDIOT LEFTIST VOTERS DECIDED IT WAS A GREAT IDEA TO MAKE EVERY DRUG UNDER THE SUN ESSENTIALLY LEGAL!! What did you think would happen?
@pmarin@tweezak maybe just a chill pill. Also. If it was decriminalized in their state why would they move to a state where it was criminalized? That. Seems like a very bad move. Source and statistics?
@pmarin@tweezak ok. I realized I read it wrong. You think a bunch of homeless people moved to your state. BECAUSE your state decriminalized drug possession of small amounts
Fair enough. My bad. All though using all caps… That phrasing is intentionally confrontational. Which you must know.
I still would like to see some stats on that but I’m sure some of that could happen. The intent of those programs is obviously to reduce jail population and get people help so there’s also the question of if the reduction in jail population/cost can pay for rehabilitation plus a potential draw from other states, if there is one.
Of course if we had never had a pointless war on drugs at the federal level, and hadn’t let pharmaceutical companies run rampant and addict tons of people/create pill mills… We probably wouldn’t be in this situation.
But we are. It would probably be better across the board if the federal government decriminalized and supported rehab. It’s really easy to do as we have an entire system for it. Instead of states having to do it which could cause that draw if they are an island.
But the federal government is… Unwilling to admit when it’s wrong. They still refuse to deal with marijuana so. Like they are going to admit to the failures with actual drugs.
@pmarin@unksol Either I misstated it or you misread it. In February 2021 personal amounts of all drugs were decriminalized in Oregon under measure 110. Penalties were either $100 or call a rehab number. Guess what. 3 years later the will of the voters has been overturned by the legislature because it was a complete failure and an unqualified disaster. Overdoses have skyrocketed as has crime along with the number of homeless. And what about the penalties? Basically nobody pays the $100. The first year something like 10 people called the number. I heard the other day in 2023 precisely one person called. Feel free to do your own research. If the Democrat supermajority in Oregon is willing to swallow their pride and call this a failure I’d say that’s pretty convincing. Some Oregon news stations you can check are KATU KPTV KOIN.
@pmarin@unksol Thank you for re-reading my comment. You are right. The original intent as sold to voters was that the tax on legal weed would fund rehabilitation and be a net win. Well, as the saying goes, the addict has to want to change. Nobody went to rehab. The money went somewhere and nobody can explain it but the drug problem only got worse. Look, I would have loved to have been wrong and see people turn their lives around but instead I saw the state I was born in go right down the toilet. 3-4 years ago you never saw homeless people. Now you can’t go anywhere without seeing people sleeping on the sidewalk or on the edge of the road. Sad.
@pmarin@tweezak it is an unfortunate fact that lots of people only get help in jail. But usually those are hard drugs. I don’t know enough about the law, just the intent. Common sense would be an avenue to sentence to some sort of rehab instead of a criminal conviction although then it you have private rehab that’s a whole nother mess. I certainly don’t have the answer to homelessness or drug abuse but prison still seems excessive
@pmarin@unksol Agreed. Prison seems/sounds harsh but unless you can separate the addict from the drug then you likely have little chance of success. If release/parole was conditioned on recovery then I’d be for that. I think it would have to require years of weekly meetings post release to make sure they don’t relapse. Our church hosts a huge NA (Narcotics Anonymous) group every Friday. It’s extremely popular. They are a great group. I know people who depend on them to stay clean and sober. I’ve been told it really helps to have a group of people who have been through the same thing to help you with your addiction.
@pmarin@tweezak faith based avenues can work. Private rehab… I’m suspect because of for profit motives. Granted prisons have a privatization problem too.
Really I’d be more for state mental health hospitals. A lot were shutdown and that just puts people in jail/prison that don’t need to be there and that staff are not equipped for. There’s no reason they couldn’t open modern facilities instead of more jails. And have a rehab wing. Maybe fine, they get charged and are detained there, but if they complete the program drop it. Provide continued support. Idk
@pmarin@unksol I’m glad you mentioned faith-based. I just remembered an organization called Teen Challenge (now Adult and Teen Challenge). They are extremely successful at giving hope to men who need to get off drugs. They also teach skills and a Christ centered life. My wife and I sponsored one young man who went on to be successful. I’m very impressed with what they are doing. Another org is Oxford House. Not Christian I don’t think but they do a great job of keeping men coming out of prison from landing back on the street. A solid strict place to live for cheap so you have a permanent address. Really helps to find a job. Curfew keeps people out of trouble too. Same problem though. People have to want the help or they will just go back to using. The help is out there.
Oh, by the way, the NA group that meets in our church recently started using a Christian based guide book. Since then the numbers in attendance have been growing.
@pmarin@tweezak I mean it’s obviously having a support system. That can come from multiple places. Even a court ordered counselor and hopefully family. Or community centers. Or faith based outreaches. Not everyone is religious though
@pmarin@tweezak also isn’t AAA and NA sort of faith based by definition? At least AAA? I assumed NA would be too and. Church sponsored in your case. But they could just be providing the space
@pmarin@unksol I honestly know nothing about NA and AA as far as if they are Christian organizations. I would doubt it because as you say, that would be a turn-off to some people and an excuse to not attend. The group at my church is just using the space. There is one church member who goes to unlock and keep an eye on things and make coffee. She says there is a lot of profanity and such. She is the one who told us that they recently switched books from a secular one to one that seems to be more faith oriented.
@pmarin@tweezak like 6 of the 12 steps of AA are explicitly about God. The whole thing is premised on it. I suppose it doesn’t actually say a Christian God. But it is based around it. Just as a fact. Also a good place to get community and support though.
@pmarin@tweezak@unksol At least one state has disallowed mandatory judicial referral to an AA program for those convicted of habitual public intoxication, due to its requirement of acceptance of a religious doctrine as a condition of participation. I have seen a number of secularized attempts to come up with a secularized clone, with very mixed results reported. I do not know anyone who has actually participated in one of the secularized clones. The AA alumni that I have known seemed to have substituted a meme addition for their substance addiction. I’m not sure which is worse.
@phendrick I know that there’s a lot of demand for a Ranger-or-smaller pickemup these days, and Toyota could make a shitload by reintroducing the old Hilux.
@werehatrack “Hilux”? Not familiar with it. But pictures on Wp make it look about same size as the Tacoma my son got when he was 16. That was not a bad truck, though he didn’t think it was “sexy” enough. My biggest complaint about it was that it had a surprisingly large turning radius, for its size, imo.
@phendrick The Hilux pickup was substantially smaller than any of the current pickup trucks available in the United States. And they were damned near indestructible.
@narfcake@phendrick@werehatrack A six-minute video but worth it; it will teach you a lot about how a “chicken tax” intentionally restricts imports of small trucks into the US.
@narfcake@phendrick@pmarin There is no practical reason why a pickup of the size of the old Hilux could not be made here, sidestepping that issue entirely. But they just won’t, because the entire automotive industry is infatuated with producing Everything Bigger All The Time.
@phendrick@pmarin@werehatrack Those old trucks were compact for a reason – they really were compact! Cabin space? Leg room and head room is lacking for taller folks, hip room is lacking due the narrower width. And safety was never a thought in that era, what with doors that weren’t much thicker that the door’s window frame and the vehicle’s crumple zone was the passenger cab itself.
The Ford Maverick and Hyundai Santa Cruz are the closest small truck options currently available in the US.
@narfcake@phendrick@werehatrack Yes to some extend that’s true, but the fact was there were fairly capable and safer smaller trucks in the 1980s, with this amazing thing called the 4-cylinder engine! Yes, 4 cylinders were enough to actually power a vehicle, even up over a “huge” 2000ft mountain. Good luck today finding anything that’s not a V-6 or bigger. Oh yes the stick shift helped too (remember there were only really sucky 3-speed automatics then, so stick shift was the clear choice – automatics are much better now, except CVTs, don’t get me started ranting about those abominations). So for this I’m talking about brands normally for sale in the US in the 1970s-80s.
If you are talking about the weird little foreign trucks like seen in Asia or Europe, yes, those do seem to have less safety and I think in their original purpose were meant for city driving at usually <50 kph. Not high-speed highway travel. I have spotted a few that people brought over here and somehow registered, with right-hand drive since they may have come from Japan or Hong Kong. One was used as a bakery delivery truck in town. I talked to the driver and told him I loved his little delivery truck.
@narfcake@phendrick@werehatrack I was actually on the “early buyer” list for a Hyundai Santa Cruz but the AWD model was not available for most of the first year. Was hoping for a hybrid or plug-in hybrid option, since it’s apparently based on the Tucson which has those models.
Once the price for the Hyundai model I was looking at, gas-only, came up close to $50K I said screw it, yeah Elon is a creepy guy, and bought a Tesla for less. And I am very happy with it.
@werehatrack I saw an interesting video a while back about why everything is bigger all the time… CAFE standards are based on footprint of the vehicle, so a bigger vehicle doesn’t have to get as good mileage.
I was able to find it again:
@pmarin I bought a Santa Cruz Limited in 2022 and love it, but it was a bit spendy.
@phendrick@pmarin@werehatrack Nope, not talking about the mini trucks like the Subaru Sambar or the likes – the compact trucks of the 70s and 80s from the likes of Toyota, Datsun/Nissan, Ford, GM, Mitsubishi, Mazda, and Isuzu.
As for non-V6, GM has the 2.7L 4-cylinder in the 1/2 ton full sizers.
@narfcake@phendrick@pmarin GM’s 2.7L four-holer is a trifle fragile in a C1500 by various accounts, but would likely be more than adequate in an S10 if it still existed. And the regs causing CAFE numbers to favor the Reagan-class land barges were written by the automakers themselves and greased through Congress with lots of contributions as lube. And if you want a complete lack of legroom with a seating position that makes a 17th-century church pew seem like a luxury box, try any of the older F100 and F150 models from back in the '70s and prior. I had to drive one of those a couple of times, and could just barely get behind the wheel. But the Mazda B2000 (alias Ford Courier) had enough.
@chienfou@shahnm@unksol@xobzoo The Geo Metro (also at one time sold as Chevy Metro) was an amazing and yes super-minimal and super-cheap car. But it cruised reliably for many years, getting 50+ MPG in the 1980s.
Funny thing is my mother and father would drive to visit me in Santa Cruz, about 100 mi, and it was quite a feat for my 6’3" father to unfold himself upon arriving. But as far as I know that car never really had any problems at all.
@chienfou@pmarin@shahnm@unksol@xobzoo I rebuilt the engine on one back around '93, and it was still running seven years later when I spotted it doing 70 headed south on I-45 with four large adults inside and some luggage.
@chienfou@shahnm Oh, I don’t think they’re bad cars. (I never had one, but would’ve been happy to.) But if you get in a wreck with one against an SUV…
(that’s nothing specific to Metros, though they get singled out for being notably smaller than other cars)
@chienfou@shahnm@xobzoo I don’t know where this idea of rust is coming from? That implies inferior metal. Like a Ford. And I’m rocking a 97 Ford expedition. I’ve seen the rust. Frame is ok though
Also all the other jokes here are making shit jokes out of the car name? Weird call out imho.
Regardless my dad’s has minimal rust for a 1991 that I’ve seen. Despite being in an unconditioned garage for 20 years and then outside for a few years.
Admittedly better than driven in winter against the road salt. but…
Yes the brakelines blew when I hit them. But you know. Dot 3 and most brakefluids are hygroscopic. And steel lines. Not the modern ones we use. They are going to rust through.
As far as room. I’m 6’4" and the Saturn was fine. I’ve only been in and out of the metro to stear but. It’s fine.
The Suzuki G10 was also use in the swift and several other cars and is a well liked engine. The G13, the 4 cylinder would get you closer to 80-90 HP in a car lighter than a Saturn SL and that was fun to drive stick at 100HP.
Yes if you’re in a compact car and get hit by a moron driving a giant SUV or truck. You’re probably going to die. But I don’t drive in dense areas and that was never really an issue with the Saturn so.
I mean I wouldn’t want to drive a metro down the Rockies or the jersey turnpike or anywhere else with crazy drivers or fast merges although… I can just downshift and do it cause manual.
@chienfou@shahnm@xobzoo
And obviously I’ve never driven the metro yet… But on a 91 curb weight is ~1600 pounds. HP is ~60
The expedition is ~4800 pounds and 220 HP but I never floor it. And it can tow. But Lb/HP. It’s not that much of a difference plus manual. Just might have to push the pedal lower then I do.
Of course it’s an econobox. Literally what it was designed for
@shahnm Another GM-family car (along with the Geo) that we can’t get anymore. Shaturns were basic but very functional and reliable. Also one of the first brands to officially support being towed behind motor-homes, which is surprisingly not a small market. A lot of people avoided Hondas and Toyotas at that time because they did not allow it (according to warranty and service rules) so a lot of people bought Saturns instead.
@pmarin@shahnm the Saturn SL was FUN to drive and I did for 15 years. After buying a 1999 in 2004 with 99K miles. We went another 150K with no issues other than a differential pin going through the transmission case because I snapped the retaining pin rocking it out of drifts and up the driveway multiple times. But that was an easy/cheap fix. Just pull the transmission out the wheel well and put a used replacement back.
My critism there is that for an extra dollar they could have but a slightly larger double rolled retaing pin. But. It did have alot of miles and I would hit it pretty hard when needed. So. While a known issue not an extremely common one
@narfcake@werehatrack Wasn’t the whole Hummer name just a joke about an, Ahem, um, blowjob? But they tended to be selling to young virile men or old rich men who wanted to think of themselves as young virile men.
The original one based on the military design was apparently quite capable, also noisy and uncomfortable. The later ones were just rebranded big SUVs.
@pmarin It was called a “Humvee” in the military (High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV; colloquial: Humvee)) and that got dumbed down to “Hummer” for the civilian version. ISTR that the term “hummer” for that other thing came along later, probably riffing on the pointlessness of the non-mil-version vehicles.
@narfcake@pmarin@werehatrack well no unless you made it into one. The original H1 and H2 were made at the AM general plant in Mishawaka, Indiana, same as the humvee. I worked security there one summer of mid 2000s when I was in college. Gates during the days but alot of walking the factory floors at night/checking miscellaneous reading on equipment/alarms etc.
However that was mostly the H1/H2 line. The actual humvee line was more old school. Everyone was smoking. On the line. The conveyors were WAY more complicated. And they were not concerned about trivial things like paint. They literally had the uparmored doors/windows/all of it. For the first attempt after 9/11
But that’s not what a humvee was made for.
If you check it. The H1 was the civilian copy.
The h2 was a hybrid of two different chasis
The h3 was just built on like a suburban frame. Just why?
@narfcake@pmarin@werehatrack you are probably correct. Main point was the H1 was an actual thing and then they just started copying the body style to a new line at the same plant for the H2. Which were extremely different lines/buildings. From how it was done to who worked it. Different union groups and negotiations too. Which was interesting to see that close.
Then the H3 was just. Done somewhere else and completely pointless but hey they were trying to make ANOTHER brand out of it. Not that the H1 was ever a good purchase decision
@narfcake@unksol@werehatrack
I was an avid fan of off-road adventure at the time, I remember the original version as being admired for the incredible ground clearance (axle shafts to offset gearing in the wheel hubs) and the CTIS tire inflation/deflation system. Important if you are going from paved highway to middle-east desert sand, which turned out to be important for the people using the military version. I’ve never ridden in one but also apparently you also sit almost on top of a center-mounted diesel engine with about 4 feet between driver and passenger. and loud and uncomfortable. Not good for cuddly romance but then again probably best to avoid that in military duty.
@narfcake@pmarin@unksol And a per unit cost for them that ran into eight figures once all of the wish list items had been Incorporated into the final design. To think that the whole point of designing the Humvee was to avoid having to make adaptations to something cheap and off the shelf to make it suitable for military use, and therefore ostensibly less costly to acquire.
The humvee was probably over engineered for what it was designed for which was… Just be a car with off-road capabilities. It was clearly never designed for armor off any sorts so… The regrettable results of using it that way in a warzone
@narfcake@pmarin@unksol And when the Gulf War demanded a fast solution to the IED problem, three bidders submitted designs, and the successful one was in production quickly. And the cost with development was substantially lower than the Humvee. The plant that produced them was nearby.
@narfcake@pakopako@pmarin@unksol Actually, my understanding of what happened was that three bidders submitted prototypes for evaluation, and only one of them passed all of the tests. It wasn’t actually the cheapest, it was just the one that didn’t get blown up. I applied for a job writing the service manuals for it, but it turned out that there were a heck of a lot of applications for that position.
@xobzoo Actually one internet rumor (it’s on the internet so it must be true) is that Elon Musk first came out with the S and the X, and wanted a “model E” so he could have a complete SEX lineup. Given his quirks (and apparently number of children), I’m actually tempted to believe that story.
@mediocrebot@medz@pmarin Why? He thinks his version is pure genius, and would doubtless consider this one gauche. (I personally think that his version is just plain screwy and stupid, and this one, well, let’s just say I wouldn’t let it park in my driveway.
A Mercedes-Benz Sphincter Van.
@Mehlachi I was thinking about getting an RV converted Sphincter van. Two problems, they cost a shit-ton of money, and also, generally don’t have a toilet. Thereby somehow failing the whole idea of this thread.
Toyota Crapry
Toyota Gore-ola
Trashla
A plain old Prius
@Mehlachi (rhymes with “puss”?)
@phendrick yeah, but the car itself is just gross on its own
@Mehlachi @phendrick It’s about half as fugly as the ass-end of a lot of late model Hondas or the nose of that GMC Terrain thing. But nothing made after 1965 out-fuglies the Asstek.
Toyota Placenta Previa
Pontiac Asstek
Kia Farty
Any of the hundreds of thousands of clapped out druggy cars that came to my state with people living in them because the IDIOT LEFTIST VOTERS DECIDED IT WAS A GREAT IDEA TO MAKE EVERY DRUG UNDER THE SUN ESSENTIALLY LEGAL!! What did you think would happen?
@tweezak I think you should go back to the Nation of Texas.
@pmarin @tweezak maybe just a chill pill. Also. If it was decriminalized in their state why would they move to a state where it was criminalized? That. Seems like a very bad move. Source and statistics?
@tweezak ISTR that ending the drug war was a popular plank on both sides, for opposing reasons.
@pmarin @tweezak ok. I realized I read it wrong. You think a bunch of homeless people moved to your state. BECAUSE your state decriminalized drug possession of small amounts
Fair enough. My bad. All though using all caps… That phrasing is intentionally confrontational. Which you must know.
I still would like to see some stats on that but I’m sure some of that could happen. The intent of those programs is obviously to reduce jail population and get people help so there’s also the question of if the reduction in jail population/cost can pay for rehabilitation plus a potential draw from other states, if there is one.
Of course if we had never had a pointless war on drugs at the federal level, and hadn’t let pharmaceutical companies run rampant and addict tons of people/create pill mills… We probably wouldn’t be in this situation.
But we are. It would probably be better across the board if the federal government decriminalized and supported rehab. It’s really easy to do as we have an entire system for it. Instead of states having to do it which could cause that draw if they are an island.
But the federal government is… Unwilling to admit when it’s wrong. They still refuse to deal with marijuana so. Like they are going to admit to the failures with actual drugs.
@pmarin Seriously considering it.
@pmarin @unksol Either I misstated it or you misread it. In February 2021 personal amounts of all drugs were decriminalized in Oregon under measure 110. Penalties were either $100 or call a rehab number. Guess what. 3 years later the will of the voters has been overturned by the legislature because it was a complete failure and an unqualified disaster. Overdoses have skyrocketed as has crime along with the number of homeless. And what about the penalties? Basically nobody pays the $100. The first year something like 10 people called the number. I heard the other day in 2023 precisely one person called. Feel free to do your own research. If the Democrat supermajority in Oregon is willing to swallow their pride and call this a failure I’d say that’s pretty convincing. Some Oregon news stations you can check are KATU KPTV KOIN.
@pmarin @unksol Thank you for re-reading my comment. You are right. The original intent as sold to voters was that the tax on legal weed would fund rehabilitation and be a net win. Well, as the saying goes, the addict has to want to change. Nobody went to rehab. The money went somewhere and nobody can explain it but the drug problem only got worse. Look, I would have loved to have been wrong and see people turn their lives around but instead I saw the state I was born in go right down the toilet. 3-4 years ago you never saw homeless people. Now you can’t go anywhere without seeing people sleeping on the sidewalk or on the edge of the road. Sad.
@pmarin @tweezak it is an unfortunate fact that lots of people only get help in jail. But usually those are hard drugs. I don’t know enough about the law, just the intent. Common sense would be an avenue to sentence to some sort of rehab instead of a criminal conviction although then it you have private rehab that’s a whole nother mess. I certainly don’t have the answer to homelessness or drug abuse but prison still seems excessive
@pmarin @unksol Agreed. Prison seems/sounds harsh but unless you can separate the addict from the drug then you likely have little chance of success. If release/parole was conditioned on recovery then I’d be for that. I think it would have to require years of weekly meetings post release to make sure they don’t relapse. Our church hosts a huge NA (Narcotics Anonymous) group every Friday. It’s extremely popular. They are a great group. I know people who depend on them to stay clean and sober. I’ve been told it really helps to have a group of people who have been through the same thing to help you with your addiction.
@pmarin @tweezak faith based avenues can work. Private rehab… I’m suspect because of for profit motives. Granted prisons have a privatization problem too.
Really I’d be more for state mental health hospitals. A lot were shutdown and that just puts people in jail/prison that don’t need to be there and that staff are not equipped for. There’s no reason they couldn’t open modern facilities instead of more jails. And have a rehab wing. Maybe fine, they get charged and are detained there, but if they complete the program drop it. Provide continued support. Idk
@pmarin @unksol I’m glad you mentioned faith-based. I just remembered an organization called Teen Challenge (now Adult and Teen Challenge). They are extremely successful at giving hope to men who need to get off drugs. They also teach skills and a Christ centered life. My wife and I sponsored one young man who went on to be successful. I’m very impressed with what they are doing. Another org is Oxford House. Not Christian I don’t think but they do a great job of keeping men coming out of prison from landing back on the street. A solid strict place to live for cheap so you have a permanent address. Really helps to find a job. Curfew keeps people out of trouble too. Same problem though. People have to want the help or they will just go back to using. The help is out there.
Oh, by the way, the NA group that meets in our church recently started using a Christian based guide book. Since then the numbers in attendance have been growing.
@pmarin @tweezak I mean it’s obviously having a support system. That can come from multiple places. Even a court ordered counselor and hopefully family. Or community centers. Or faith based outreaches. Not everyone is religious though
@pmarin @tweezak also isn’t AAA and NA sort of faith based by definition? At least AAA? I assumed NA would be too and. Church sponsored in your case. But they could just be providing the space
@pmarin @unksol I honestly know nothing about NA and AA as far as if they are Christian organizations. I would doubt it because as you say, that would be a turn-off to some people and an excuse to not attend. The group at my church is just using the space. There is one church member who goes to unlock and keep an eye on things and make coffee. She says there is a lot of profanity and such. She is the one who told us that they recently switched books from a secular one to one that seems to be more faith oriented.
@pmarin @tweezak like 6 of the 12 steps of AA are explicitly about God. The whole thing is premised on it. I suppose it doesn’t actually say a Christian God. But it is based around it. Just as a fact. Also a good place to get community and support though.
@pmarin @tweezak @unksol At least one state has disallowed mandatory judicial referral to an AA program for those convicted of habitual public intoxication, due to its requirement of acceptance of a religious doctrine as a condition of participation. I have seen a number of secularized attempts to come up with a secularized clone, with very mixed results reported. I do not know anyone who has actually participated in one of the secularized clones. The AA alumni that I have known seemed to have substituted a meme addition for their substance addiction. I’m not sure which is worse.
@pmarin @tweezak well. And I suppose some people get different levels of acceptance and support. That’s a different problem
ToyOta Ravaged 4-Play.
(Little-mentioned fact: “Ota” is the Japanese slang word for “Car”. Remember when they were all pretty much sub-compacts?)
@phendrick I know that there’s a lot of demand for a Ranger-or-smaller pickemup these days, and Toyota could make a shitload by reintroducing the old Hilux.
@werehatrack “Hilux”? Not familiar with it. But pictures on Wp make it look about same size as the Tacoma my son got when he was 16. That was not a bad truck, though he didn’t think it was “sexy” enough. My biggest complaint about it was that it had a surprisingly large turning radius, for its size, imo.
@phendrick The Hilux pickup was substantially smaller than any of the current pickup trucks available in the United States. And they were damned near indestructible.
@phendrick @werehatrack
@narfcake @phendrick @werehatrack A six-minute video but worth it; it will teach you a lot about how a “chicken tax” intentionally restricts imports of small trucks into the US.
@narfcake @phendrick @pmarin There is no practical reason why a pickup of the size of the old Hilux could not be made here, sidestepping that issue entirely. But they just won’t, because the entire automotive industry is infatuated with producing Everything Bigger All The Time.
@phendrick @pmarin @werehatrack Those old trucks were compact for a reason – they really were compact! Cabin space? Leg room and head room is lacking for taller folks, hip room is lacking due the narrower width. And safety was never a thought in that era, what with doors that weren’t much thicker that the door’s window frame and the vehicle’s crumple zone was the passenger cab itself.
The Ford Maverick and Hyundai Santa Cruz are the closest small truck options currently available in the US.
@narfcake @phendrick @werehatrack Yes to some extend that’s true, but the fact was there were fairly capable and safer smaller trucks in the 1980s, with this amazing thing called the 4-cylinder engine! Yes, 4 cylinders were enough to actually power a vehicle, even up over a “huge” 2000ft mountain. Good luck today finding anything that’s not a V-6 or bigger. Oh yes the stick shift helped too (remember there were only really sucky 3-speed automatics then, so stick shift was the clear choice – automatics are much better now, except CVTs, don’t get me started ranting about those abominations). So for this I’m talking about brands normally for sale in the US in the 1970s-80s.
If you are talking about the weird little foreign trucks like seen in Asia or Europe, yes, those do seem to have less safety and I think in their original purpose were meant for city driving at usually <50 kph. Not high-speed highway travel. I have spotted a few that people brought over here and somehow registered, with right-hand drive since they may have come from Japan or Hong Kong. One was used as a bakery delivery truck in town. I talked to the driver and told him I loved his little delivery truck.
@narfcake @phendrick @werehatrack I was actually on the “early buyer” list for a Hyundai Santa Cruz but the AWD model was not available for most of the first year. Was hoping for a hybrid or plug-in hybrid option, since it’s apparently based on the Tucson which has those models.
Once the price for the Hyundai model I was looking at, gas-only, came up close to $50K I said screw it, yeah Elon is a creepy guy, and bought a Tesla for less. And I am very happy with it.
@werehatrack I saw an interesting video a while back about why everything is bigger all the time… CAFE standards are based on footprint of the vehicle, so a bigger vehicle doesn’t have to get as good mileage.
I was able to find it again:
@pmarin I bought a Santa Cruz Limited in 2022 and love it, but it was a bit spendy.
@phendrick @pmarin @werehatrack Nope, not talking about the mini trucks like the Subaru Sambar or the likes – the compact trucks of the 70s and 80s from the likes of Toyota, Datsun/Nissan, Ford, GM, Mitsubishi, Mazda, and Isuzu.
As for non-V6, GM has the 2.7L 4-cylinder in the 1/2 ton full sizers.
@narfcake @phendrick @pmarin GM’s 2.7L four-holer is a trifle fragile in a C1500 by various accounts, but would likely be more than adequate in an S10 if it still existed. And the regs causing CAFE numbers to favor the Reagan-class land barges were written by the automakers themselves and greased through Congress with lots of contributions as lube. And if you want a complete lack of legroom with a seating position that makes a 17th-century church pew seem like a luxury box, try any of the older F100 and F150 models from back in the '70s and prior. I had to drive one of those a couple of times, and could just barely get behind the wheel. But the Mazda B2000 (alias Ford Courier) had enough.
Chrysler Pissifica
BM w
@shahnm Reminds me of a very old joke, what’s the difference between a porcupine and a BMW?
Answer: the porcupine has the pricks on the outside!
We forgot about the shaggin’ waggon.
@Mehlachi Scooby?
@pmarin I was referring to dumb and dumber
/giphy dumber van
Masa-Rotty
Pontiyuck
Rolls 'Roids
Volkswagen Pisshit
Bentley Flying Turd
AMC Pisser
Mini Pooper
Bentley Incontinental
Chevy Impaler
@shahnm Not Hallowe’en yet!
Cadillac Shitty4
Geo Metro (this one just stood on its own as the world’s crappiest car…)
@shahnm Often called “tinfoil car of death.”
@shahnm @xobzoo
I’ll have to agree to disagree.
I really liked the Metro convertible I had…
@chienfou @xobzoo No doubt it was a joy to drive for the 7 hours you had it before it rusted through and fell apart…
@shahnm @xobzoo
Hey @unksol. Care to comment?
@chienfou @shahnm @unksol @xobzoo The Geo Metro (also at one time sold as Chevy Metro) was an amazing and yes super-minimal and super-cheap car. But it cruised reliably for many years, getting 50+ MPG in the 1980s.
Funny thing is my mother and father would drive to visit me in Santa Cruz, about 100 mi, and it was quite a feat for my 6’3" father to unfold himself upon arriving. But as far as I know that car never really had any problems at all.
@chienfou @pmarin @shahnm @unksol @xobzoo I rebuilt the engine on one back around '93, and it was still running seven years later when I spotted it doing 70 headed south on I-45 with four large adults inside and some luggage.
@chienfou @shahnm @unksol @werehatrack @xobzoo 3-cylinder Suzuki engine as I recall?
@pmarin Yep. The same kind that unksol has apart.
@chienfou @shahnm Oh, I don’t think they’re bad cars. (I never had one, but would’ve been happy to.) But if you get in a wreck with one against an SUV…
(that’s nothing specific to Metros, though they get singled out for being notably smaller than other cars)
@shahnm @xobzoo someone clearly hasn’t seen a Pinto explode
@chienfou @shahnm @xobzoo I don’t know where this idea of rust is coming from? That implies inferior metal. Like a Ford. And I’m rocking a 97 Ford expedition. I’ve seen the rust. Frame is ok though
Also all the other jokes here are making shit jokes out of the car name? Weird call out imho.
Regardless my dad’s has minimal rust for a 1991 that I’ve seen. Despite being in an unconditioned garage for 20 years and then outside for a few years.
Admittedly better than driven in winter against the road salt. but…
Yes the brakelines blew when I hit them. But you know. Dot 3 and most brakefluids are hygroscopic. And steel lines. Not the modern ones we use. They are going to rust through.
As far as room. I’m 6’4" and the Saturn was fine. I’ve only been in and out of the metro to stear but. It’s fine.
The Suzuki G10 was also use in the swift and several other cars and is a well liked engine. The G13, the 4 cylinder would get you closer to 80-90 HP in a car lighter than a Saturn SL and that was fun to drive stick at 100HP.
Yes if you’re in a compact car and get hit by a moron driving a giant SUV or truck. You’re probably going to die. But I don’t drive in dense areas and that was never really an issue with the Saturn so.
I mean I wouldn’t want to drive a metro down the Rockies or the jersey turnpike or anywhere else with crazy drivers or fast merges although… I can just downshift and do it cause manual.
@chienfou @shahnm @xobzoo
And obviously I’ve never driven the metro yet… But on a 91 curb weight is ~1600 pounds. HP is ~60
The expedition is ~4800 pounds and 220 HP but I never floor it. And it can tow. But Lb/HP. It’s not that much of a difference plus manual. Just might have to push the pedal lower then I do.
Of course it’s an econobox. Literally what it was designed for
Shaturn
@shahnm Another GM-family car (along with the Geo) that we can’t get anymore. Shaturns were basic but very functional and reliable. Also one of the first brands to officially support being towed behind motor-homes, which is surprisingly not a small market. A lot of people avoided Hondas and Toyotas at that time because they did not allow it (according to warranty and service rules) so a lot of people bought Saturns instead.
@pmarin @shahnm the Saturn SL was FUN to drive and I did for 15 years. After buying a 1999 in 2004 with 99K miles. We went another 150K with no issues other than a differential pin going through the transmission case because I snapped the retaining pin rocking it out of drifts and up the driveway multiple times. But that was an easy/cheap fix. Just pull the transmission out the wheel well and put a used replacement back.
My critism there is that for an extra dollar they could have but a slightly larger double rolled retaing pin. But. It did have alot of miles and I would hit it pretty hard when needed. So. While a known issue not an extremely common one
Lincoln Fumigator
@shahnm And its twin the Mercury Marinator
Oh, come on, it’s right in front of you.
DUMP TRUCK
Chevy Malipoo
Drymouth Road-runsER!
Aka: I̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶ Drymouth b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶ Road I̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ runs w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶d̶e̶h̶y̶d̶r̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶a̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶g̶o̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶ ER!
@sicc574
Ford Probe or as we nicknamed mine “The Proctologist Special”
Any car with toddlers as regular passengers.
Humper, any of them, but particularly that fecking obnoxious wide-ass original version, and that hyperstupid H2 “pickup”.
@werehatrack That works for the Humber brand too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humber_Limited
@narfcake I actually knew someone who had a Super Snipe.
@narfcake @werehatrack Wasn’t the whole Hummer name just a joke about an, Ahem, um, blowjob? But they tended to be selling to young virile men or old rich men who wanted to think of themselves as young virile men.
The original one based on the military design was apparently quite capable, also noisy and uncomfortable. The later ones were just rebranded big SUVs.
@pmarin It was called a “Humvee” in the military (High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV; colloquial: Humvee)) and that got dumbed down to “Hummer” for the civilian version. ISTR that the term “hummer” for that other thing came along later, probably riffing on the pointlessness of the non-mil-version vehicles.
@narfcake @pmarin @werehatrack well no unless you made it into one. The original H1 and H2 were made at the AM general plant in Mishawaka, Indiana, same as the humvee. I worked security there one summer of mid 2000s when I was in college. Gates during the days but alot of walking the factory floors at night/checking miscellaneous reading on equipment/alarms etc.
However that was mostly the H1/H2 line. The actual humvee line was more old school. Everyone was smoking. On the line. The conveyors were WAY more complicated. And they were not concerned about trivial things like paint. They literally had the uparmored doors/windows/all of it. For the first attempt after 9/11
But that’s not what a humvee was made for.
If you check it. The H1 was the civilian copy.
The h2 was a hybrid of two different chasis
The h3 was just built on like a suburban frame. Just why?
@pmarin @unksol @werehatrack IIRC, H2 used a chassis from the 3/4 ton Tahoe/Yukon and the H3 used a chassis from the Colorado/Canyon.
@narfcake @pmarin @werehatrack you are probably correct. Main point was the H1 was an actual thing and then they just started copying the body style to a new line at the same plant for the H2. Which were extremely different lines/buildings. From how it was done to who worked it. Different union groups and negotiations too. Which was interesting to see that close.
Then the H3 was just. Done somewhere else and completely pointless but hey they were trying to make ANOTHER brand out of it. Not that the H1 was ever a good purchase decision
@narfcake @unksol @werehatrack
I was an avid fan of off-road adventure at the time, I remember the original version as being admired for the incredible ground clearance (axle shafts to offset gearing in the wheel hubs) and the CTIS tire inflation/deflation system. Important if you are going from paved highway to middle-east desert sand, which turned out to be important for the people using the military version. I’ve never ridden in one but also apparently you also sit almost on top of a center-mounted diesel engine with about 4 feet between driver and passenger. and loud and uncomfortable. Not good for cuddly romance but then again probably best to avoid that in military duty.
@narfcake @pmarin @unksol And a per unit cost for them that ran into eight figures once all of the wish list items had been Incorporated into the final design. To think that the whole point of designing the Humvee was to avoid having to make adaptations to something cheap and off the shelf to make it suitable for military use, and therefore ostensibly less costly to acquire.
@narfcake @pmarin @werehatrack so every military development program ever. Lol. Cough cough zumwalt cough.
But vehicles and small arms too.
The humvee was probably over engineered for what it was designed for which was… Just be a car with off-road capabilities. It was clearly never designed for armor off any sorts so… The regrettable results of using it that way in a warzone
@narfcake @pmarin @unksol And when the Gulf War demanded a fast solution to the IED problem, three bidders submitted designs, and the successful one was in production quickly. And the cost with development was substantially lower than the Humvee. The plant that produced them was nearby.
@narfcake @pmarin @unksol @werehatrack “the successful one” … Aka the lowest bidder
@narfcake @pakopako @pmarin @unksol Actually, my understanding of what happened was that three bidders submitted prototypes for evaluation, and only one of them passed all of the tests. It wasn’t actually the cheapest, it was just the one that didn’t get blown up. I applied for a job writing the service manuals for it, but it turned out that there were a heck of a lot of applications for that position.
Ford Pus-tang
Mini Moist
Ford Exploder
@werehatrack aka the Pinto
Oh wait, there was an actual explod… I mean Explorer line. My mistake.
Kia Placenta
Tesla Model asS ?
@xobzoo Actually one internet rumor (it’s on the internet so it must be true) is that Elon Musk first came out with the S and the X, and wanted a “model E” so he could have a complete SEX lineup. Given his quirks (and apparently number of children), I’m actually tempted to believe that story.
/showme Pontiac Aztec but it’s a cyber truck
@mediocrebot that’s badass, though
@mediocrebot @medz (please don’t show that to Elon…)
@mediocrebot @medz @pmarin Why? He thinks his version is pure genius, and would doubtless consider this one gauche. (I personally think that his version is just plain screwy and stupid, and this one, well, let’s just say I wouldn’t let it park in my driveway.
Pontiac Fireturd
@medz For when your Hardly-Ableson is in the shop?