@ciabelle Yeah, I’ll trust my house to something I’ve already admitted is “probably $40 junk.” Good luck.
Sorry…I work for a company that makes industrial, commercial and hospitality (hotel) locks and keyless entry systems. I know the attack testing, environmental and anti-hack extremes our products go through. Trust me - it does not come cheap.
@ciabelle@tweezak House door locks only exist as a deterrent. Unless you have reinforced doors and frames, protected hinges, and no windows, getting an insanely over the top lock is completely useless.
@ciabelle@Telanis@tweezak That is so true. A couple of months ago someone broke into the apartment above me. Bent the metal door frame and chiseled/pried the wood by the lock. Bingo. Took maybe a minute to get in.
@tweezak As others have said, Common burglars might have a set of bump keys. Which this appears to be impervious to, as it doesn’t appear to have a back-up keyway. Mostly they’re looking for an unlocked door, open window or some other easy vector of entry. They’ll proceed to the next house if there’s any real resistance.
Supposing I foolishly left piles of gold bullion in plain view from my front window, if the front door wasn’t unlocked, my window would be smashed in long before anyone ever pulled out a set of lockpicks.
I have a couple strong magnets like the ones the Lockpicking Lawyer uses, and I will certainly test to see that the solenoid is properly shielded. That it reliably locks and unlocks the door, that it rejects an incorrect fingerprint, and isn’t bypassed by pressing a series of 0’s on the keypad.
If the feds thought I was storing classified documents in my home, they’d get in even if I had Medeco locks installs, but those same locks would also advertise that I definitely had something worth stealing inside as well.
@ciabelle this probably doesn’t use a solenoid. Most of the home grade electronic deadbolts use a little motor geared to approximately infinity to rotate the latch.
Sometimes those mechanisms are set to be initiated with a momentary contact and then latched into a run condition until a limit switch shuts them off. This is how the spiral springs on at least some snack vending machines work. If you spin the spring clockwise a little bit, the bit that keeps it running will engage and it will make one full rotation and stop at its original position. If one can craft an attack to do this reliably from the outside, one can empty the machine without opening the cabinet.
It’s unlikely that you can influence the big gear on this to turn from the outside, but if it has a similar design that could be a weakness to attack because it could bypass all the controls over signaling it to start normally.
@ciabelle@tweezak 99.99% of homes are protected by something which costs less McDonald’s dinner for a family of four. This is a terrific visual indicator that says “this home is better protected than usual, so go find an easier target”.
That’s totally worth $40.
Also, incidentally, it’s worth not having to worry about your kids losing their keys (or having them stolen) and the subsequent worry that someone will simply walk right in. Or your friends/family losing the same.
@ciabelle@mythereal The issue with low end security products is that exploits are found and end up all over the internet. Quite often the visual presence of this actually makes your home more of a target because the thief knows they can defeat it easily.
@haydesigner No idea on the lock picking ability, but in terms of physical strength, it’s ANSI grade 3 (residential grade). Grade 1 is commercial, grade 2 in between the two.
@davidgro not to mention other emergencies. There was a really good thing I read about a while ago by an infosec researcher who moved out of her apartment building when they switched to something like this. There was a huge myriad of reasons for it, but the one that haunted me was the idea of getting trapped in an emergency, or having the emergency services locked out.
@davidgro@novium The doors to my apartment building have a circle key fob to trigger the sliding doors to open. It’s been out of commission more than once. Can’t pry them open. At least we had a “regular” emergency door to get out. Now getting in required someone opening the door for you. When the assholes who own this place installed this system they didn’t give USPS, UPS, Fed Ex, Fire department, EMS or anyone else something to get with. They’d be sitting outside waiting for someone to come open the door on the inside. Now all those folks have the code that overrides not having a key fob but the level of stupidity the new owners have is astonishing at times. I am on the waiting list to get the fuck out of here. Location here is incredibly convenient but the crime here is bad and they are the owners from hell.
@Kidsandliz for about $20 I bought all the equipment to duplicate those fobs, too. For a little more investment they can be copied surreptitiously at greater range, or you can embed the reader into something like a notepad and copy a privileged user’s fob or prox card without being noticed. They are no more secure than master keys, and probably less so because the managers think they are more secure. There’s also a chance that they even reassign your fob when you turn it in so if you have a duplicate and leave the duplicate could still access the premises.
It is probably very much against fire code to have this be the only means of entry and fail secure. A lot of times they use an inconspicuous key box (or a lock keyed with a fire key that the fire department already has) that will give emergency personnel access through a keyed entry. That does nothing for the delivery people, though, but getting a package isn’t usually a life or death situation.
@djslack We have some fire exits that set off an alarm if you use them. There is no fob box. Rather there is a box where you can enter a code to get in instead of using a fob. It took about a year though for the current assholes to set up access for emergency services and post services.
@werehatrack I assume those protrusions on the bottom are contacts for a 9V battery for such a situation? But you’re right about if the board toasts you’re hosed.
A snippet from review 2 years ago from allsmartocks. ( I have a Wyze myself and love it, mind you it was twice as much, came with Duracell batteries, I have Bluetooth access, but thankfully I don’t have the finger print deletion issue mentioned here, keep in mind the one on meh maybe a updated unit and may not have this issue, I could not find a review with the model number lisited).
From allsmartlocks
TACKLIFE Fingerprint Electronic Lock with Keypad has 50 fingerprint memory in total. Performance of the fingerprint reader is above average. In our tests, it recognized 70% of our fingerprints in the first try and unlocked the door immediately. When your finger is wet, the fingerprint reader has trouble reading your finger and often does not recognize it.
Fingerprint registration process is also very easy, but fingerprint deletion is a bit problematic. To delete a fingerprint, you need the owner of the fingerprint you want to delete. So if you want to delete a fingerprint that you registered in the past, you cannot delete that fingerprint if that person is not near you. This both creates a security weakness and gives you difficulties. In this case, you have to delete all registered fingerprints to delete the fingerprint you want to delete. This obviously poses a huge problem.
@dtwsportsfan@tweezak If you can buy 2,592 of these batteries for $0.33751/each for a total of $874.83 do you think meh can sell us that many for $25.99 (because of course the need a 7 cent profit)
@dtwsportsfan@tweezak … I would love to know how to buy quality batteries that aren’t counterfeit. With Amazon, you never have any idea if a product is authentic and the Big Box stores also feature third party fulfillment on their websites.
It doesn’t help knowing the names of reliable manufacturers if the products retailers ship you are bootleg!
(this issue isn’t limited to batteries if course, but I am ending up with duds these days often as not) .
@brasscupcakes
If you are a ‘rewards’ member at Office Depot they often do a 100% back in rewards offer for Duracell AA & AAA batteries. You may pay more for them up front than from Walmart etc. but you get all that money back as a credit you can use to purchase other things from OD. It’s essentially like getting the batteries for the cost of the sales tax. Plus, if you recycle toner or ink cartridges you get $2 back per item you recycle (up to 10 per month) if you buy $10 worth of stuff in a month. The initial battery purchase actually counts toward that requirement, so you can get an extra $20 bucks back as well as the cost of the batteries. And your batteries are free.
YW
@brasscupcakes@dtwsportsfan The digikey.com link I provided should go directly to the Energizer Industrials. Do this on a computer because their phone site is useless. If you do search for them on Digi-Key make sure to check the box to eliminate marketplace items. This restricts the results to products stocked and sold by Digi-Key only. You will never get a counterfeit this way.
I have completely sworn off Amazon because they knowingly allow counterfeit merchants to sell on their site. Jeff Bezos will never see a penny of my money.
@brasscupcakes@dtwsportsfan As an aside, NEVER buy flash memory of any kind from Amazon. Most of it is mislabeled and sold at a higher price. I just go to the mfg website (Sandisk is my favorite) and buy directly. Amazingly usually the price is the same or often less.
@brasscupcakes@dtwsportsfan@tweezak Agreed on the inadvisibility of buying any kind of flash memory on Amazon. I always get mine from Micro Center, mostly because their house brand is pretty good, and very cheap. And their prices on the genuine name brand stuff are also pretty good.
@brasscupcakes@chienfou After the number of devices I’ve had to throw away because of leaking Duracells, I wouldn’t buy their batteries with somebody else’s money to put in an enemy’s flashlight. They may be slightly less leak-prone than the utterly abysmal Rayovacs, but that’s like saying that lung cancer isn’t as bad as pancreatic.
@brasscupcakes@werehatrack
That’s interesting. I’ve had pretty good luck with Duracells. The one time that they did leak they made good on their warranty.
@brasscupcakes@chienfou Their warranty isn’t worth a damn if the device that has been damaged is something esoteric and essentially irreplaceable, or very expensive. I have yet for them to agree to repair or replace things like a Fluke meter whose circuit board was damaged by the effluent from the batteries. And yes, I have contacted them about such things.
In the hunt for more reviews on this thing, (aside from the single review from the person on Wayfair who never installed it) I tried doing a reverse image search of one of the stock photos.
Couldn’t find any exact matches, but found the identical door used for a Vivint doorbell cam… Hmmm
@ciabelle Doubly sus because that looks like a photo of a doorbell button mounted on the frame next to a door, and not something mounted on a door itself. That sure looks like siding next to the vertical element.
Interesting, so many of these locks have way more features than I need. I don’t want anything with wifi vulns that can’t be patched, bug-riddled apps, or data reporting to Google or Amazon, etc etc. But if I just don’t set up the fingerprint thingie, this will give me a manager code, a series of 1-time-passcodes for visitors and maintenance people, and nothing else? Ooo. In for two.
Unfortunately regular deadbolts are scary easy to pick. My Son works in IT Security. He learned how and can open just about any deadbolt in 2 minutes or less and that is rusty. Doesn’t make me feel safe at night, but I have early detection system… i.e. Dogs…
@Mandamm@narfcake And as one of the security people demonstrated a while back, if the cracking technique first concentrates on strings of common words to substitute in for the overall length, the cracking time gets a whole lot faster. Now, that many random characters does in fact make a very strong password indeed. And good luck remembering it. Although, oddly enough, I use one that looks pretty random to anybody else for one of mine, and yet I have no real problem remembering it. Don’t know why.
Some locks are 5 pin, this one is 5 fingers (and hopefully not the discount). For the money, I prefer this no-name brand that promises music from the Messiah and sports on horseback…
@GeckoD bumping is a form of lockpicking (without actually having to pick each pin individually)…but if it doesn’t have a lock cylinder/pins at all…it’s automatically pick proof…
Is it just me or does anyone else want to know WTF
does the INSIDE side of the lock look like?? Is there a knob? Another fingerprint/number plate? A blank surface so that when it auto-locks you have to go around the house via another door to go outside to open that door so you can go out?.. but wait, you are already outside so why bother?
Maybe put up a manual link?? So MANY questions
Specs
Product: Tacklife Keyless Front Door Deadbolt with Fingerprint & Keypad
Model: USAKKOHN1016261
Condition: New
What’s Included?
Price Comparison
$99.99 at Wayfair (out of stock)
Warranty
90 days
Estimated Delivery
Tuesday, Feb 14 - Thursday, Feb 16
Will this work on a trunk?
@yakkoTDI Yes. (some assembly required)
Meh
Probably junk, but for $40 worth a try I guess.
/buy
@ciabelle It worked! Your order number is: destroyed-hypnotic-chance
/image destroyed hypnotic chance
@ciabelle Yeah, I’ll trust my house to something I’ve already admitted is “probably $40 junk.” Good luck.
Sorry…I work for a company that makes industrial, commercial and hospitality (hotel) locks and keyless entry systems. I know the attack testing, environmental and anti-hack extremes our products go through. Trust me - it does not come cheap.
@ciabelle @tweezak Or 5 minutes with LPL and back to the drawing board…
@ciabelle @tweezak House door locks only exist as a deterrent. Unless you have reinforced doors and frames, protected hinges, and no windows, getting an insanely over the top lock is completely useless.
@Telanis don’t forget brick walls.
@ciabelle @Telanis @tweezak That is so true. A couple of months ago someone broke into the apartment above me. Bent the metal door frame and chiseled/pried the wood by the lock. Bingo. Took maybe a minute to get in.
@tweezak As others have said, Common burglars might have a set of bump keys. Which this appears to be impervious to, as it doesn’t appear to have a back-up keyway. Mostly they’re looking for an unlocked door, open window or some other easy vector of entry. They’ll proceed to the next house if there’s any real resistance.
Supposing I foolishly left piles of gold bullion in plain view from my front window, if the front door wasn’t unlocked, my window would be smashed in long before anyone ever pulled out a set of lockpicks.
I have a couple strong magnets like the ones the Lockpicking Lawyer uses, and I will certainly test to see that the solenoid is properly shielded. That it reliably locks and unlocks the door, that it rejects an incorrect fingerprint, and isn’t bypassed by pressing a series of 0’s on the keypad.
If the feds thought I was storing classified documents in my home, they’d get in even if I had Medeco locks installs, but those same locks would also advertise that I definitely had something worth stealing inside as well.
@ciabelle this probably doesn’t use a solenoid. Most of the home grade electronic deadbolts use a little motor geared to approximately infinity to rotate the latch.
Sometimes those mechanisms are set to be initiated with a momentary contact and then latched into a run condition until a limit switch shuts them off. This is how the spiral springs on at least some snack vending machines work. If you spin the spring clockwise a little bit, the bit that keeps it running will engage and it will make one full rotation and stop at its original position. If one can craft an attack to do this reliably from the outside, one can empty the machine without opening the cabinet.
It’s unlikely that you can influence the big gear on this to turn from the outside, but if it has a similar design that could be a weakness to attack because it could bypass all the controls over signaling it to start normally.
@ciabelle @tweezak 99.99% of homes are protected by something which costs less McDonald’s dinner for a family of four. This is a terrific visual indicator that says “this home is better protected than usual, so go find an easier target”.
That’s totally worth $40.
Also, incidentally, it’s worth not having to worry about your kids losing their keys (or having them stolen) and the subsequent worry that someone will simply walk right in. Or your friends/family losing the same.
@ciabelle @mythereal The issue with low end security products is that exploits are found and end up all over the internet. Quite often the visual presence of this actually makes your home more of a target because the thief knows they can defeat it easily.
Anyone know if the actual lock itself is any good?
@haydesigner Probably not very good at this price point.
@haydesigner No idea on the lock picking ability, but in terms of physical strength, it’s ANSI grade 3 (residential grade). Grade 1 is commercial, grade 2 in between the two.
/showme how to hack the Tacklife Keyless Front Door Deadbolt with Fingerprint & Keypad using only a banana
@mediocrebot you forgot something…
@awk @mediocrebot It’s in the lock.
@awk @mediocrebot @mehcuda67 In the lock? So you eat your way in?
It’s a Mehrath … oh.
No physical backup key?
So if you go on vacation and the battery dies, it’s window breaking time?
@davidgro not to mention other emergencies. There was a really good thing I read about a while ago by an infosec researcher who moved out of her apartment building when they switched to something like this. There was a huge myriad of reasons for it, but the one that haunted me was the idea of getting trapped in an emergency, or having the emergency services locked out.
@davidgro @novium The doors to my apartment building have a circle key fob to trigger the sliding doors to open. It’s been out of commission more than once. Can’t pry them open. At least we had a “regular” emergency door to get out. Now getting in required someone opening the door for you. When the assholes who own this place installed this system they didn’t give USPS, UPS, Fed Ex, Fire department, EMS or anyone else something to get with. They’d be sitting outside waiting for someone to come open the door on the inside. Now all those folks have the code that overrides not having a key fob but the level of stupidity the new owners have is astonishing at times. I am on the waiting list to get the fuck out of here. Location here is incredibly convenient but the crime here is bad and they are the owners from hell.
@Kidsandliz for about $20 I bought all the equipment to duplicate those fobs, too. For a little more investment they can be copied surreptitiously at greater range, or you can embed the reader into something like a notepad and copy a privileged user’s fob or prox card without being noticed. They are no more secure than master keys, and probably less so because the managers think they are more secure. There’s also a chance that they even reassign your fob when you turn it in so if you have a duplicate and leave the duplicate could still access the premises.
It is probably very much against fire code to have this be the only means of entry and fail secure. A lot of times they use an inconspicuous key box (or a lock keyed with a fire key that the fire department already has) that will give emergency personnel access through a keyed entry. That does nothing for the delivery people, though, but getting a package isn’t usually a life or death situation.
@djslack We have some fire exits that set off an alarm if you use them. There is no fob box. Rather there is a box where you can enter a code to get in instead of using a fob. It took about a year though for the current assholes to set up access for emergency services and post services.
And if rhe battery or the control circuit dies with the deadbolt engaged, you’ll need a really good drill to core the lock.
No thanks.
@werehatrack I assume those protrusions on the bottom are contacts for a 9V battery for such a situation? But you’re right about if the board toasts you’re hosed.
@werehatrack Or buy the side deal cordless saw and just cut part of the door out around the lock (keeping that in your unlocked shed of course).
Tackless Keylife Deadbolt? Sounds serious but unguided.
@phendrick
And then there’s Tackless Keybolt Deadlife, very Goth.
A snippet from review 2 years ago from allsmartocks. ( I have a Wyze myself and love it, mind you it was twice as much, came with Duracell batteries, I have Bluetooth access, but thankfully I don’t have the finger print deletion issue mentioned here, keep in mind the one on meh maybe a updated unit and may not have this issue, I could not find a review with the model number lisited).
From allsmartlocks
TACKLIFE Fingerprint Electronic Lock with Keypad has 50 fingerprint memory in total. Performance of the fingerprint reader is above average. In our tests, it recognized 70% of our fingerprints in the first try and unlocked the door immediately. When your finger is wet, the fingerprint reader has trouble reading your finger and often does not recognize it.
Fingerprint registration process is also very easy, but fingerprint deletion is a bit problematic. To delete a fingerprint, you need the owner of the fingerprint you want to delete. So if you want to delete a fingerprint that you registered in the past, you cannot delete that fingerprint if that person is not near you. This both creates a security weakness and gives you difficulties. In this case, you have to delete all registered fingerprints to delete the fingerprint you want to delete. This obviously poses a huge problem.
@dtwsportsfan Duracell is crap. Trust me. I test batteries and Duracells leak if you look at them funny. Best I’ve tested are Energizer Industrial. Panasonic and Fujitsu are also very good.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/energizer-battery-company/EN91/704822
@dtwsportsfan @tweezak If you can buy 2,592 of these batteries for $0.33751/each for a total of $874.83 do you think meh can sell us that many for $25.99 (because of course the need a 7 cent profit)
@dtwsportsfan @tweezak … I would love to know how to buy quality batteries that aren’t counterfeit. With Amazon, you never have any idea if a product is authentic and the Big Box stores also feature third party fulfillment on their websites.
It doesn’t help knowing the names of reliable manufacturers if the products retailers ship you are bootleg!
(this issue isn’t limited to batteries if course, but I am ending up with duds these days often as not) .
Thanks!
@brasscupcakes @dtwsportsfan @tweezak those Voniko batteries are not bad at all.
@brasscupcakes
If you are a ‘rewards’ member at Office Depot they often do a 100% back in rewards offer for Duracell AA & AAA batteries. You may pay more for them up front than from Walmart etc. but you get all that money back as a credit you can use to purchase other things from OD. It’s essentially like getting the batteries for the cost of the sales tax. Plus, if you recycle toner or ink cartridges you get $2 back per item you recycle (up to 10 per month) if you buy $10 worth of stuff in a month. The initial battery purchase actually counts toward that requirement, so you can get an extra $20 bucks back as well as the cost of the batteries. And your batteries are free.
YW
@brasscupcakes @dtwsportsfan The digikey.com link I provided should go directly to the Energizer Industrials. Do this on a computer because their phone site is useless. If you do search for them on Digi-Key make sure to check the box to eliminate marketplace items. This restricts the results to products stocked and sold by Digi-Key only. You will never get a counterfeit this way.
I have completely sworn off Amazon because they knowingly allow counterfeit merchants to sell on their site. Jeff Bezos will never see a penny of my money.
@brasscupcakes @dtwsportsfan As an aside, NEVER buy flash memory of any kind from Amazon. Most of it is mislabeled and sold at a higher price. I just go to the mfg website (Sandisk is my favorite) and buy directly. Amazingly usually the price is the same or often less.
@brasscupcakes @dtwsportsfan @tweezak Agreed on the inadvisibility of buying any kind of flash memory on Amazon. I always get mine from Micro Center, mostly because their house brand is pretty good, and very cheap. And their prices on the genuine name brand stuff are also pretty good.
@brasscupcakes @chienfou After the number of devices I’ve had to throw away because of leaking Duracells, I wouldn’t buy their batteries with somebody else’s money to put in an enemy’s flashlight. They may be slightly less leak-prone than the utterly abysmal Rayovacs, but that’s like saying that lung cancer isn’t as bad as pancreatic.
@brasscupcakes @werehatrack
That’s interesting. I’ve had pretty good luck with Duracells. The one time that they did leak they made good on their warranty.
@brasscupcakes @chienfou Their warranty isn’t worth a damn if the device that has been damaged is something esoteric and essentially irreplaceable, or very expensive. I have yet for them to agree to repair or replace things like a Fluke meter whose circuit board was damaged by the effluent from the batteries. And yes, I have contacted them about such things.
@brasscupcakes @werehatrack
Guess I’ve been lucky up to now. I’ll keep that under advisement!
In the hunt for more reviews on this thing, (aside from the single review from the person on Wayfair who never installed it) I tried doing a reverse image search of one of the stock photos.
Couldn’t find any exact matches, but found the identical door used for a Vivint doorbell cam… Hmmm
@ciabelle Stock photography gone wild!
@ciabelle Doubly sus because that looks like a photo of a doorbell button mounted on the frame next to a door, and not something mounted on a door itself. That sure looks like siding next to the vertical element.
I kind of want to buy this just to send it to the Lockpickinglawyer to watch him open it in like 1 second with a magnet.
@jandrese Better yet, take on awk’s challenge and pick it with a banana.
@jandrese Please do!
Interesting, so many of these locks have way more features than I need. I don’t want anything with wifi vulns that can’t be patched, bug-riddled apps, or data reporting to Google or Amazon, etc etc. But if I just don’t set up the fingerprint thingie, this will give me a manager code, a series of 1-time-passcodes for visitors and maintenance people, and nothing else? Ooo. In for two.
Unfortunately regular deadbolts are scary easy to pick. My Son works in IT Security. He learned how and can open just about any deadbolt in 2 minutes or less and that is rusty. Doesn’t make me feel safe at night, but I have early detection system… i.e. Dogs…
@Mandamm IT security, you say?
@narfcake That’s Funny! He told me my PW needs to be something really long and detailed, like, "rogeristhebestkidontheblockandlovesmydogs.
@narfcake He just got his GIAC Security Expert Cert. Only just over 300 in the world. I am sending this as a screen shot to him. He will likely laugh.
@Mandamm Password strength was covered in #936.
@Mandamm @narfcake And as one of the security people demonstrated a while back, if the cracking technique first concentrates on strings of common words to substitute in for the overall length, the cracking time gets a whole lot faster. Now, that many random characters does in fact make a very strong password indeed. And good luck remembering it. Although, oddly enough, I use one that looks pretty random to anybody else for one of mine, and yet I have no real problem remembering it. Don’t know why.
Grade 3 security. Is that the education level needed to hack the lock?
Some locks are 5 pin, this one is 5 fingers (and hopefully not the discount). For the money, I prefer this no-name brand that promises music from the Messiah and sports on horseback…
@MrNews what brand where to find this one?
@MrNews
Are you sure this one isn’t a one finger lock - the middle one?
@patbarrett1 The 'Zon.
Bump proof?
I’ve never known a thief to simply bump a deadbolt…
@GeckoD bumping is a form of lockpicking (without actually having to pick each pin individually)…but if it doesn’t have a lock cylinder/pins at all…it’s automatically pick proof…
Is it just me or does anyone else want to know WTF
does the INSIDE side of the lock look like?? Is there a knob? Another fingerprint/number plate? A blank surface so that when it auto-locks you have to go around the house via another door to go outside to open that door so you can go out?.. but wait, you are already outside so why bother?
Maybe put up a manual link??
So MANY questions
@chienfou maybe it’s another hole like where the fingerprint sensor is on the outside, but with teeth. Yikes.
@djslack
OW!
Works great love the finger print access!