Tragedy: I'm moving outside of Meh's shipping area

@mycya4me For way more than a year, the IRK format has been entirely about the willingness to spend money, not the thrill of the hunt during the now-boring 'thons and midnight ET rollunders.

@medz Seriously? The person isn’t departing from meh in a huff (which is what this video was about), rather the person announcing a life change and making a joke about meh in the process of doing that. I didn’t get the impression that they were closing their meh account nor planning never to post here again… however living on a farm in a developing nation may make it much harder to do so.

@Kidsandliz

@f00l

@f00l

@f00l -

“We may not be able to stop and undo the hard old wrongs of the great world outside, but through you and me no evil shall come either in the unknown where you are going, or in this imperfect and haunted dimension of awareness through which I move.”

― Laurens van der Post, The Seed and the Sower

@aetris

Unfortunately, I can’t admire van der Post.
I despise him.

He is believed by his official biographer (chosen by him) to have been a lifelong fantasist and liar.
(Much documentation)
The agreement with the biographer was that the biographer would not begin research until after his death
The biographer was quite shocked at what the research revealed.

He is believed to have fabricated much of his bushman experiences, and his army and war prison camp tales.

(Believed to be a fabricator by fellow soldiers and inmates of the prison camp, and by fellow European-language speaking persons living in the areas where he claimed extensive bushman experiences.)

And when the the care of a 14 year old daughter of his friend was entrusted to him for a sea voyage, he “seduced” her.

This was at a time when the girl’s own sister believed herself to be engaged to him, and he when was living was living with another woman.

The girl’s family forced him to financially support the child. But he cut off contact, would not acknowledge the pregnant girl, (later mother of his child), the child, or the later grandchild.

The girl, his unacknowledged daughter, and his unknowledged grandchild have confirmed this story.

To me all that adds up to sex criminal, rapist of a young teenager, and total shit.

The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/feb/04/uk.vanessathorpe

The NYT
https://web.archive.org/web/20250318142812/https://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/03/books/master-storyteller-or-master-deceiver.html

The Telegraph
https://web.archive.org/web/20250223184937/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4725722/The-guru-who-got-away-with-it.html

It’s easy to believe that he was a master seducer

considering how many people (including the intelligent and notable) admired or now admire him (either during his life or because they read his books), and who don’t know about the really dark aspects of his life.

Wish he’d been anything close to what he presented himself as being. He apparently wasn’t.

@aetris

https://www.amazon.com/Storyteller-many-lives-Laurens-Post/dp/0719555809?ref_=ast_author_mpb

This info has since been largely confirmed by reporters and other researchers.

@f00l I think this is the wrong thread for an extended debate on Van Der Post, but I’d be happy to discuss him with you somewhere else. I’m familiar with the criticism, but no one disputes that he was a prisoner of the Japanese in WWII, did work with Indonesian nationalists and European governments in Java after the war, and did interact with San People in the Kalahari at the behest of the British government. I’m prepared to accept that he exaggerated a great deal of his experience, but I see him as a writer, philosopher, and conservationist rather than someone passing their beliefs off as science like Margaret Mead or William Johnson. The sexual incident is disturbing but without knowing an awful lot more about it than I’ve ever heard I’m not prepared to pass judgement. No one has ever suggested that he is in the same category as serial molesters a la Roman Polanski etc.

@aetris

Yes he did communicate with the bush people.
Yes he was a pow and did participate in those campaigns, according to records and to other persons involved.

But not as he claimed he did, apparently

As for the 14 year old girl who was in his custody because her parents had entrusted him to escort her on a sea voyage and keep her safe
(commun enough at that time for parents or guardians to arrange for a trusted chaperone for traveling children, esp females)

When the girl’s own sister thought she was engaged to him

And he was living with another woman at the time …

And she was 14.

She was 14.

She was 14.

And he was essentially entrusted to be in loco parentis for the voyage. He had accepted that role.

Then aside from sending $ he refused to interact with her or his child or grandchild after that.

I don’t really know of any possible potential “speculative facts” that could somehow miligate, or help this somehow be better than it appears.

And given that he did this, and destroyed an huge portion of her life, and took no public responsibility … I don’t care what else (that could be banal or potentially profound) he might have had to say on any topic.

@f00l I don’t want to dwell on things that upset people and I think I understand your feelings. The shipboard affair story is sad, but I’ve heard lots of variations on it. Kudos to Woody Allen for marrying his girl? I honestly don’t understand that kind of thing and that “I just wanna use your love tonight” song creeps the hell out of me every time I hear it on the radio; seems like a lot.

However Van Der Post was a Boer, raised in South Africa at the beginning of the 20th century, most of whose literary output was devoted to compassion and respect for native Africans and other cultures. I’m not prepared to dismiss his entire life’s work due to one sex fumble.

@aetris

He didn’t have compassion or respect for that girl. Of for their child. Or grandchild.

If you read around news and essay or memoir commentary on his actions, apparently quite a few people thought of him as being a seductive predator toward women

It’s not one “sex fumble” although that’s what caused pregnancy if you wanna call it a “fumble”

I wouldn’t call it a fumble. I would call it seductive, predation, and grooming, and that he knew what he was doing.

And then he walked away from her
Isnt that great? /s

—-

The quote about bringing no evil

Well, he did bring evil didn’t he? He brought it within himself.

More so, since many people who were actually with him in Africa, or during the war said that his accounts were way way far more self congratulatory than actual facts had been

He was apparently a fantasized and a fabulist and a manipulator and a seducer

Which makes him sound pretty much like a modern definition of a narcissist, and possibly a low level sociopath

People can write beautifully and still be evil or still be narcissists or manipulators or sociopaths. There are plenty of examples.

To me, he is just one more

—-

Also note that this apparently “profound and deep thinker” (as he was seem to be at the time) never owned his darker actions

Never admitted to them
Never took responsibility for them
Never made amends for them
And never paid the price for them

And was never honest

—-

Oh, but he wrote nicely, and if you didn’t know what he was really like you could think of him as deep, right?

/s

—-

If you want to keep your version of him: fine, do that.
I’m aware of that opinions vary among individuals.

I suppose that if a known apparent manipulator, narcissist, seducer, and predator is used as a source of inspirational quotes

In a topic about somebody else going forward with their life in what appears to me to be a bold and courageous direction

If I were the one quoting the controversial individual, I would expect blowback

@aetris

As for your Woody Allen mention:

I’ve had no use for him for decades for a variety of reasons

Woody Allen’s reputation fell so hard that he kind of had to marry Soon-Yi in order to get people to be willing to have dinner with him in New York

Whatever his motives for marrying her, I wish she had stepped back and not been willing to marry him

I wish she had been able to step away from a seduction that happened in terrible circumstances when she was really young

Go out and have an independent life as an adult and create whatever intimate relationships she experienced completely independent of the ones she had as a child

But they have chosen their lives, and I find his choices (made under the circumstances those choices were made) inexcusable.

@f00l TL;DR. Bottom line: Using pop media as a basis for judging others doesn’t work for me. I know you don’t automatically believe things you read in the press and I sure don’t. If you want to use Van Der Post as a goat to pontificate about your value system, don’t let me stop you, but please stop addressing the BS to me, thanks.

@f00l Whoops, I apologize! I shouldn’t’ve said BS. I don’t disagree with your point of view and reiterate: I’m not a member of the Jerry Lee Lewis fan club.

I think we can agree that anyone who addressed a remark to you without expecting a prolix reply is VERY distracted this week! On the other hand, I suspect you’ve seen TL;DR before?

Side Note:

ATTN MEH STAFF you need to sell Meh branded Otamatones as they basically look like meh faces already and everyone loves otamatones.

@OnionSoup YES!

@OnionSoup I dunno, you might get a pretty meh sound:

@aetris they’re a heck of a lot of fun to play with. Really hard to get to sound good… But fun.

@OnionSoup I have a feeling the mouth needs to be pretty wide, is all!

@aetris @OnionSoup Not bragging, it’s just fact.

@chienfou Being an ex-goat is definitely all I dreamed it would be. Taking all the blame and posting all the days is a lot of work!

@f00l I’m actually already sending out email updates to my supporters and may move to a blog eventually.

I don’t like my online persona being associated with any real info, and the info you guys would be interested in (the agriculture side of things) is different from the info my supporters would be interested in (the evangelism side of things). I could potentially do double work if I ever find myself with extra time and a need for connection, but no guarantees I’ll post anything on a regular basis here.

If you PM me your email address, you can at least get on that list, and your replies to those emails could potentially lead to a quicker post here.